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Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 1:46 pm
Esco, zgodno ti je ovo. Citam.
---
A zasto se ne registriras pa direktno porazgovaras s ljudima?
I ne nerviraj se zbog teme.
---
A zasto se ne registriras pa direktno porazgovaras s ljudima?
I ne nerviraj se zbog teme.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 1:47 pm
E hebiga, sad je prebacilo stranicu. Uglavnom, Buffy, Esco ima nove komentare.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 1:49 pm
The Treasure of Light and the Mystery of the Five Trees
At the turn of the present century Professor GRS Mead summarized a German translation of a surviving Gnostic text, the "Second Book of Ieou". 16 P The text describes Jesus bidding male and female disciples to join him so that he can reveal to them the great mystery of the Treasure of Light.
One of the few that managed to survive the Catholic Church's editorial flames, without being hidden with the Nag Hamadi codexes.
In order to accomplish this, the candidates have to be initiated by three Baptisms: The Baptism of Water, the Baptism of Fire, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, "and thereafter the Mystery of the Spiritual Chrism [anointing]."10
Jesus tells his followers that the master-mysteries of the Treasure of Light are involved with the mystery of the Five Trees, which may mean having knowledge of the magical plants that were used in the ceremony.
All of these mysteries Jesus promises to give to His disciples, that they may be called "Children of the Fullness (Pleroma) perfected in all mysteries." The Master then gathers His disciples, and sets forth a place of offering, placing one wine-jar on the right and on the left, and strews certain berries and spices round the vessels; He then puts a certain plant in their mouths, and another plant in their hands, and ranges them in order round the sacrifice.10
Continuing with the ritual, Jesus gives the disciples cups, along with other articles, and seals their foreheads with a magical diagram. Then, like shamanistic and magical ceremonies the world over, he turns his disciples to the four corners of the world, with their feet together in an attitude of prayer, and then offers a prayer which is prefixed with an invocation, and continues with a number of purifications and into the Baptism of Fire.
In this rite vine-branches are used; they are strewn with various materials of incense. The Eucharist is prepared...8
Q This offering of "fragrant-incense" to the Virgin of Light is reminiscent of the Old Testament offerings of kaneh-bosm incense to the Queen of Heaven (1 Kings 3:3).
The Goddess played a paramount role in Gnostic theology.
The prayer [this time, is to] the Virgin of Light. . . Q the judge; she it is who gives the Water of the Baptism of Fire. A wonder is asked for in "the fire of this fragrant incense", and it is brought about by the agency of Zorokothora.R What the nature of the wonder was, is not stated. Jesus baptizes the disciples, gives them of the eucharistic sacrifice, and seals their foreheads with the seal of the Virgin of Light.
Next follows the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. In this rite both the wine-jars and vine-branches are used. A wonder again takes place, but is not further specified. After this we have the Mystery of Withdrawing the Evil of the Rulers, which consists of an elaborate incense-offering.
R The title Zorokothora is likely derived from Zoroaster, an ancient Persian prophet-shaman. Centuries before the Christian age the Zoroastrian Magi were known for their use of "bhanga" (cannabis), as well as a primordial entheogenic drink known as "haoma" or "soma", now widely identified as anamita muscaria, or fly agaric mushroom. The Zoroastrians had a great influence on Jewish culture during the years of Persian rule. The concept of heaven and hell (conspicuously absent from the Old Testament) is derived from Zoroastrianism. Jesus' apparent knowledge of Zoroaster, and Zoroastrian sacraments, hints that perhaps amanita was identified with the entheogenic "wonder" filled "five trees" which Jesus used in his shamanistic initiation ceremonies. One of the more significant and widespread Gnostic sects, the Manicheans, were known to use anamita mushrooms, and worshipped Jesus right alongside Zoroaster. The Manicheans survived into the twelfth century in parts of Europe and China, and performed ceremonies similar to the one which Jesus is described as presiding over.
The "wonder" in the incense which so perplexed Mead was presumably a reference to its undescribable psychoactive effects. It's also likely that the other undefined "wonder" indicates the magical properties of the different plants used in the ceremony.
It would seem to follow that the identity of the different plants, vines, and berries described in the excerpts were identified to the participants as the Mystery of the Five Trees.
At this time we can only speculate what other plants were used in the ceremony. The account of mandrake in Genesis 30: 14-16 and in Solomon's Song of Songs 7: 13, (which seems to indicate its addition to the holy anointing oil), clearly document the long term interest the Hebrews had with these seemingly magical plant angels.
That the use and knowledge of such plants could have been passed down by certain "heretical" branches of the faith such as the Gnostics seems self evident. The addition of such a powerful hallucinatory drug such as mandrake (or belladonna, which was also popular in the Middle East at that time) would help to explain some of the extreme experiences related to the holy anointings and baptisms described in the Gnostic literature.
At the turn of the present century Professor GRS Mead summarized a German translation of a surviving Gnostic text, the "Second Book of Ieou". 16 P The text describes Jesus bidding male and female disciples to join him so that he can reveal to them the great mystery of the Treasure of Light.
One of the few that managed to survive the Catholic Church's editorial flames, without being hidden with the Nag Hamadi codexes.
In order to accomplish this, the candidates have to be initiated by three Baptisms: The Baptism of Water, the Baptism of Fire, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, "and thereafter the Mystery of the Spiritual Chrism [anointing]."10
Jesus tells his followers that the master-mysteries of the Treasure of Light are involved with the mystery of the Five Trees, which may mean having knowledge of the magical plants that were used in the ceremony.
All of these mysteries Jesus promises to give to His disciples, that they may be called "Children of the Fullness (Pleroma) perfected in all mysteries." The Master then gathers His disciples, and sets forth a place of offering, placing one wine-jar on the right and on the left, and strews certain berries and spices round the vessels; He then puts a certain plant in their mouths, and another plant in their hands, and ranges them in order round the sacrifice.10
Continuing with the ritual, Jesus gives the disciples cups, along with other articles, and seals their foreheads with a magical diagram. Then, like shamanistic and magical ceremonies the world over, he turns his disciples to the four corners of the world, with their feet together in an attitude of prayer, and then offers a prayer which is prefixed with an invocation, and continues with a number of purifications and into the Baptism of Fire.
In this rite vine-branches are used; they are strewn with various materials of incense. The Eucharist is prepared...8
Q This offering of "fragrant-incense" to the Virgin of Light is reminiscent of the Old Testament offerings of kaneh-bosm incense to the Queen of Heaven (1 Kings 3:3).
The Goddess played a paramount role in Gnostic theology.
The prayer [this time, is to] the Virgin of Light. . . Q the judge; she it is who gives the Water of the Baptism of Fire. A wonder is asked for in "the fire of this fragrant incense", and it is brought about by the agency of Zorokothora.R What the nature of the wonder was, is not stated. Jesus baptizes the disciples, gives them of the eucharistic sacrifice, and seals their foreheads with the seal of the Virgin of Light.
Next follows the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. In this rite both the wine-jars and vine-branches are used. A wonder again takes place, but is not further specified. After this we have the Mystery of Withdrawing the Evil of the Rulers, which consists of an elaborate incense-offering.
R The title Zorokothora is likely derived from Zoroaster, an ancient Persian prophet-shaman. Centuries before the Christian age the Zoroastrian Magi were known for their use of "bhanga" (cannabis), as well as a primordial entheogenic drink known as "haoma" or "soma", now widely identified as anamita muscaria, or fly agaric mushroom. The Zoroastrians had a great influence on Jewish culture during the years of Persian rule. The concept of heaven and hell (conspicuously absent from the Old Testament) is derived from Zoroastrianism. Jesus' apparent knowledge of Zoroaster, and Zoroastrian sacraments, hints that perhaps amanita was identified with the entheogenic "wonder" filled "five trees" which Jesus used in his shamanistic initiation ceremonies. One of the more significant and widespread Gnostic sects, the Manicheans, were known to use anamita mushrooms, and worshipped Jesus right alongside Zoroaster. The Manicheans survived into the twelfth century in parts of Europe and China, and performed ceremonies similar to the one which Jesus is described as presiding over.
The "wonder" in the incense which so perplexed Mead was presumably a reference to its undescribable psychoactive effects. It's also likely that the other undefined "wonder" indicates the magical properties of the different plants used in the ceremony.
It would seem to follow that the identity of the different plants, vines, and berries described in the excerpts were identified to the participants as the Mystery of the Five Trees.
At this time we can only speculate what other plants were used in the ceremony. The account of mandrake in Genesis 30: 14-16 and in Solomon's Song of Songs 7: 13, (which seems to indicate its addition to the holy anointing oil), clearly document the long term interest the Hebrews had with these seemingly magical plant angels.
That the use and knowledge of such plants could have been passed down by certain "heretical" branches of the faith such as the Gnostics seems self evident. The addition of such a powerful hallucinatory drug such as mandrake (or belladonna, which was also popular in the Middle East at that time) would help to explain some of the extreme experiences related to the holy anointings and baptisms described in the Gnostic literature.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 1:51 pm
Ligeja je napisao/la:E hebiga, sad je prebacilo stranicu. Uglavnom, Buffy, Esco ima nove komentare.
pa zamisli paradoks. oni cija se religija zasniva na uporabi kanabisa, oni su za zabranu tog istog kanabisa. ludilo!
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 1:56 pm
Gnostic Mysteries
The Gnostics had many levels of initiation, and the mysteries of these different grades were not written down like the more esoteric surviving texts were, but were given verbally at special ceremonies. Elements like the recipe of the obviously psychoactive holy oil were guarded with the closest secrecy, and were known only by the sect's most trusted initiates. This was a standard mystery school method, as "magic revealed is magic lost", and such secrets could only be entrusted to the group's most loyal members.
"Gnostic treatises did not reveal the whole matter. . . the final revelation was only communicated by word of mouth in the body, and by vision out of the body."10
"It is certain that Gnostic texts even in cultic matters favour a metaphorical symbolic manner of speaking and. . . clearly avoided communicating precise details about their 'mysteries'."3
In 130-200AD, the Catholic Church Father Irenaeus accused the Gnostics of initiating members with "secret sacraments". In his discussion of Gnostic texts which dealt with the anointing rite, he stated that they were written in an archaic manner, "to baffle even more those who are being initiated." 14
We can add to Ireneaus's comments that the Gnostics likely wrote in such a concealing fashion to "baffle" their persecutors, like Ireneus, whom they feared would find out the source behind the secret power of their anointing oil.
Mysteries of the Faith
Such a hidden reference to other psychoactive plants can be seen in "the mystery of the five trees", which were used by Jesus in complicated shamanistic initiation rituals. They are described in what is possibly the oldest Christian text in existence O, The Gospel of Thomas:
"...there are five trees for you in Paradise... Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death."
O The Gospel of Thomas has an estimated date of composition as early as 40-100 AD, and likely predates the earliest New Testament Gospel, Mark, which is thought to have been written around 60 AD.
In the Gnostic view, "not experiencing death" meant reaching a certain state of interior purification or enlightenment, at which point the initiate would "rise from the dead" and "never grew old and became immortal." That is to say, he rose from ignorance and blindness, gained possession of the unbroken consciousness of his spiritual ego, and as such realized that he was a part of a larger Cosmic whole, which continued on long after the disappearance of the material body. Jesus referred to attaining this "higher" state of consciousness, as "entering the kingdom of heaven".
The attainment of this Gnostic state can be compared to the goal of yoga, (which itself means "union"), where the successful devotee obtains "a radical switch in consciousness obliterating the sense of individuation." 15
As with the similar goal of yoga union, the "kingdom of heaven" state was not attained instantaneously, but required years of vigorous training. Like certain older branches of yoga, a variety of psychoactive plants were used as aids to facilitate the devotee in attaining this "higher" state.
Although the Gnostic give us some detailed descriptions of these esoteric Christian teachings, it is interesting to note that they are also alluded to in New Testament accounts by Jesus himself:
"To you has been given the secret of the Kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables: so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand. . . " (Mark 4:11)
The Gnostics had many levels of initiation, and the mysteries of these different grades were not written down like the more esoteric surviving texts were, but were given verbally at special ceremonies. Elements like the recipe of the obviously psychoactive holy oil were guarded with the closest secrecy, and were known only by the sect's most trusted initiates. This was a standard mystery school method, as "magic revealed is magic lost", and such secrets could only be entrusted to the group's most loyal members.
"Gnostic treatises did not reveal the whole matter. . . the final revelation was only communicated by word of mouth in the body, and by vision out of the body."10
"It is certain that Gnostic texts even in cultic matters favour a metaphorical symbolic manner of speaking and. . . clearly avoided communicating precise details about their 'mysteries'."3
In 130-200AD, the Catholic Church Father Irenaeus accused the Gnostics of initiating members with "secret sacraments". In his discussion of Gnostic texts which dealt with the anointing rite, he stated that they were written in an archaic manner, "to baffle even more those who are being initiated." 14
We can add to Ireneaus's comments that the Gnostics likely wrote in such a concealing fashion to "baffle" their persecutors, like Ireneus, whom they feared would find out the source behind the secret power of their anointing oil.
Mysteries of the Faith
Such a hidden reference to other psychoactive plants can be seen in "the mystery of the five trees", which were used by Jesus in complicated shamanistic initiation rituals. They are described in what is possibly the oldest Christian text in existence O, The Gospel of Thomas:
"...there are five trees for you in Paradise... Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death."
O The Gospel of Thomas has an estimated date of composition as early as 40-100 AD, and likely predates the earliest New Testament Gospel, Mark, which is thought to have been written around 60 AD.
In the Gnostic view, "not experiencing death" meant reaching a certain state of interior purification or enlightenment, at which point the initiate would "rise from the dead" and "never grew old and became immortal." That is to say, he rose from ignorance and blindness, gained possession of the unbroken consciousness of his spiritual ego, and as such realized that he was a part of a larger Cosmic whole, which continued on long after the disappearance of the material body. Jesus referred to attaining this "higher" state of consciousness, as "entering the kingdom of heaven".
The attainment of this Gnostic state can be compared to the goal of yoga, (which itself means "union"), where the successful devotee obtains "a radical switch in consciousness obliterating the sense of individuation." 15
As with the similar goal of yoga union, the "kingdom of heaven" state was not attained instantaneously, but required years of vigorous training. Like certain older branches of yoga, a variety of psychoactive plants were used as aids to facilitate the devotee in attaining this "higher" state.
Although the Gnostic give us some detailed descriptions of these esoteric Christian teachings, it is interesting to note that they are also alluded to in New Testament accounts by Jesus himself:
"To you has been given the secret of the Kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables: so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand. . . " (Mark 4:11)
Zadnja promjena: Toro; ned stu 09, 2014 2:01 pm; ukupno mijenjano 1 put.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:08 pm
Ligeja je napisao/la:Esco, zgodno ti je ovo. Citam.
---
A zasto se ne registriras pa direktno porazgovaras s ljudima?
nema smisla se registrirati. no cost-benefit anyway. ovdje sam doma draze mi je tu napisati pa tko hoce neka cita tko nece ne mora. jer uzalud objasnjavati nekome nesto kad taj ima vec iskljuciv stav prema necemu. sad bih ja trebao nekog forumskog trola koji vjerojatno talibanizira vlastitu religiju koja danas veze s vezom nema o onome sto je Isus radio, uvjeravati da je u krivu i da grijesi.
"To you has been given the secret of the Kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables: so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand. . . " (Mark 4:11)
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:13 pm
a znam tu stranicu odkad se otvorila
imas i ovu koja je online biblioteka, nema bas direktnu vezu s temom ali je treba imati u favoritima i citati sto sve pise o svim mogucim supstancama prirodnim i sintetickim
https://www.erowid.org/
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:19 pm
Toro je napisao/la:
a znam tu stranicu odkad se otvorila
imas i ovu koja je online biblioteka, nema bas direktnu vezu s temom ali je treba imati u favoritima i citati sto sve pise o svim mogucim supstancama prirodnim i sintetickim
https://www.erowid.org/
Dobro je to sve malo procitati.. Hvala.
Nisam znala za ovu. Uzivaj u danu i vidimo se kasnije.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:23 pm
The Incomplete Baptism
In the first few centuries AD, Christian Gnostic groups such as the Archontics, Valentians and Sethians rejected water baptism as superfluous, referring to it as an "incomplete baptism".9 In the tractate, the Testimony of Truth, water Baptism is rejected with a reference to the fact that Jesus baptized none of his disciples.3
Being "anointed with unutterable anointing", the so-called "sealings" recorded in the Gnostic texts, can be seen as a very literal event. "There is water in water, there is fire in chrism." (Gospel of Philip).
"The anointing with oil was the introduction of the candidate into unfading bliss, thus becoming a Christ." 10
"The oil as a sign of the gift of the Spirit was quite natural within a semetic framework, and therefore the ceremony is probably very early. . . In time the biblical meaning became obscured." 13
The survivng Gnostic descriptions of the effects of the anointing rite make it very clear that the holy oil had intense psycho-active properties, which prepared the recipient for entrance into "unfading bliss". In some Gnostic texts like the Pistis Sophia and the Books of Jeu, the "spiritual ointment" is a prerequisite for entry into the highest mystery. 10
In the Gospel of Philip it is written that the initiates of the empty rite of Baptism:
"go down into the water and come up without having received anything. . . The anointing (chrisma) (hrv: krizma) is superior to baptism. For from the anointing we were called 'anointed ones' (Christians), not because of the baptism. And Christ also was [so] named because of the anointing, for the Father anointed the son, and the son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. [Therefore] he who has been anointed has the All. He has the resurrection, the light. . . the Holy Spirit. . . [If] one receives this unction, this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ."
Similarly, the Gospel of Truth records that Jesus specifically came into their midst so that he:
"might anoint them with the ointment. The ointment is the mercy of the Father. . . those whom he has anointed are the ones who have become perfect."
The apocryphal book, The Acts of Thomas, refers to the ointment's entheogenic effects as being specifically derived from a certain plant:
Holy oil, given us for sanctification, hidden mystery in which the cross was shown us, you are the unfolder of the hidden parts. You are the humiliator of stubborn deeds. You are the one who shows the hidden treasures. You are the plant of kindness. Let your power come by this [unction].
In the first few centuries AD, Christian Gnostic groups such as the Archontics, Valentians and Sethians rejected water baptism as superfluous, referring to it as an "incomplete baptism".9 In the tractate, the Testimony of Truth, water Baptism is rejected with a reference to the fact that Jesus baptized none of his disciples.3
Being "anointed with unutterable anointing", the so-called "sealings" recorded in the Gnostic texts, can be seen as a very literal event. "There is water in water, there is fire in chrism." (Gospel of Philip).
"The anointing with oil was the introduction of the candidate into unfading bliss, thus becoming a Christ." 10
"The oil as a sign of the gift of the Spirit was quite natural within a semetic framework, and therefore the ceremony is probably very early. . . In time the biblical meaning became obscured." 13
The survivng Gnostic descriptions of the effects of the anointing rite make it very clear that the holy oil had intense psycho-active properties, which prepared the recipient for entrance into "unfading bliss". In some Gnostic texts like the Pistis Sophia and the Books of Jeu, the "spiritual ointment" is a prerequisite for entry into the highest mystery. 10
In the Gospel of Philip it is written that the initiates of the empty rite of Baptism:
"go down into the water and come up without having received anything. . . The anointing (chrisma) (hrv: krizma) is superior to baptism. For from the anointing we were called 'anointed ones' (Christians), not because of the baptism. And Christ also was [so] named because of the anointing, for the Father anointed the son, and the son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. [Therefore] he who has been anointed has the All. He has the resurrection, the light. . . the Holy Spirit. . . [If] one receives this unction, this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ."
Similarly, the Gospel of Truth records that Jesus specifically came into their midst so that he:
"might anoint them with the ointment. The ointment is the mercy of the Father. . . those whom he has anointed are the ones who have become perfect."
The apocryphal book, The Acts of Thomas, refers to the ointment's entheogenic effects as being specifically derived from a certain plant:
Holy oil, given us for sanctification, hidden mystery in which the cross was shown us, you are the unfolder of the hidden parts. You are the humiliator of stubborn deeds. You are the one who shows the hidden treasures. You are the plant of kindness. Let your power come by this [unction].
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:31 pm
The Anointed Ones
Unlike the shamanistic priests and kings of earlier generations, Jesus did not follow the strict Old Testament taboos that limited the holy cannabis oils use to Yahweh's chosen few (Exodus 30:33), but broke tradition and began to liberally use it in both healing and initiation rites.
Through this open distribution the singular Christ, "the Anointed", was extended to become the plural term "Christians", that is, those who had been smeared or anointed. "By rubbing on this divine unction. . . obtained from certain special herbs or plants, they believed they were donning the panoply of God."7
L A similar claim was made about hashish by the medieval Sufi poet Fuzuli, who recorded in his treatise Bang and Wine, the story of Basra, a disciple whose sheik felt that he had reached the ultimate degree of perfection through the consumption of hashish, and that he was no longer in need of further guidance. This story led to Fuzuli's proclamation that "hashish is the perfect being. . . for the seeker of the mystical experience." In many ways the Sufi movement can be seen as the phoenix which rose from the ashes of the earlier Gnostics.
As the New Testament's John explains:
. . . you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. . . . the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit - just as it has taught you, remain in him." (1 John 2: 27). L
". . . the Christian, the 'smeared or anointed one', received 'knowledge of all things' by his 'anointing from the Holy One' (1 John 2: 20). Thereafter he had need of no other teacher and remained forevermore endowed with all knowledge (v. 27).
M ie: Kaneh Bosm, documented as cannabis.5
"Whatever the full ingredients of the Christian unction may have been, they would certainly have included the aromatic gums and spices of the traditional Israelite anointing oil: myrrh, aromatic cane,M cinnamon, and cassia. . .
Under certain enclosed conditions a mixture of these substances rubbed on the skin could produce the kind of intoxicating belief in self-omniscience referred to in the New Testament."8 N
N This quote is from scholar John Allegro, whose work I drew from for this article. Allegro was a great scholar of both the bible and ancient languages, and his work broke a lot of ground. Allegro was also the only human secularist on the original team of scholars involved in the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, so he came to his views through more unbiased anthropological thinking than that of his more "faithful" co-researchers. In The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, Allegro translated the kaneh-bosm reference in Exodus as "aromatic cane", and I have quoted him here on how the anointing oil "could produce a kind of intoxicating belief in self-omniscience." Yet Allegro failed to make the rightful connection with cannabis, seeing instead another plant drug at use, the amanita muscaria mushroom. His writings reveal he was extremely prejudiced against cannabis, even going so far with his etymological arguments as to suggest that the Greek term "kannabis" somehow referred to a mushroom. Allegro never smoked marijuana, but his own observations of what he referred to as "the 'pot'-smokers of today, the weary dotards who wander listlessly round our cities and universities," caused him to discount any possible use of cannabis as a means of achieving spiritual ecstasy.
Unlike the shamanistic priests and kings of earlier generations, Jesus did not follow the strict Old Testament taboos that limited the holy cannabis oils use to Yahweh's chosen few (Exodus 30:33), but broke tradition and began to liberally use it in both healing and initiation rites.
Through this open distribution the singular Christ, "the Anointed", was extended to become the plural term "Christians", that is, those who had been smeared or anointed. "By rubbing on this divine unction. . . obtained from certain special herbs or plants, they believed they were donning the panoply of God."7
L A similar claim was made about hashish by the medieval Sufi poet Fuzuli, who recorded in his treatise Bang and Wine, the story of Basra, a disciple whose sheik felt that he had reached the ultimate degree of perfection through the consumption of hashish, and that he was no longer in need of further guidance. This story led to Fuzuli's proclamation that "hashish is the perfect being. . . for the seeker of the mystical experience." In many ways the Sufi movement can be seen as the phoenix which rose from the ashes of the earlier Gnostics.
As the New Testament's John explains:
. . . you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. . . . the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit - just as it has taught you, remain in him." (1 John 2: 27). L
". . . the Christian, the 'smeared or anointed one', received 'knowledge of all things' by his 'anointing from the Holy One' (1 John 2: 20). Thereafter he had need of no other teacher and remained forevermore endowed with all knowledge (v. 27).
M ie: Kaneh Bosm, documented as cannabis.5
"Whatever the full ingredients of the Christian unction may have been, they would certainly have included the aromatic gums and spices of the traditional Israelite anointing oil: myrrh, aromatic cane,M cinnamon, and cassia. . .
Under certain enclosed conditions a mixture of these substances rubbed on the skin could produce the kind of intoxicating belief in self-omniscience referred to in the New Testament."8 N
N This quote is from scholar John Allegro, whose work I drew from for this article. Allegro was a great scholar of both the bible and ancient languages, and his work broke a lot of ground. Allegro was also the only human secularist on the original team of scholars involved in the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, so he came to his views through more unbiased anthropological thinking than that of his more "faithful" co-researchers. In The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, Allegro translated the kaneh-bosm reference in Exodus as "aromatic cane", and I have quoted him here on how the anointing oil "could produce a kind of intoxicating belief in self-omniscience." Yet Allegro failed to make the rightful connection with cannabis, seeing instead another plant drug at use, the amanita muscaria mushroom. His writings reveal he was extremely prejudiced against cannabis, even going so far with his etymological arguments as to suggest that the Greek term "kannabis" somehow referred to a mushroom. Allegro never smoked marijuana, but his own observations of what he referred to as "the 'pot'-smokers of today, the weary dotards who wander listlessly round our cities and universities," caused him to discount any possible use of cannabis as a means of achieving spiritual ecstasy.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:37 pm
Ligeja je napisao/la:Toro je napisao/la:
a znam tu stranicu odkad se otvorila
imas i ovu koja je online biblioteka, nema bas direktnu vezu s temom ali je treba imati u favoritima i citati sto sve pise o svim mogucim supstancama prirodnim i sintetickim
https://www.erowid.org/
Dobro je to sve malo procitati.. Hvala.
Uzivaj u danu i vidimo se kasnije.
erowid.org je vrlo strucno i profesionalno detaljno obradjeno stivo o svim opijatima, psihofarmacima itd, nisu to pisali diletanti.
ugodan dan i tebi
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 2:50 pm
The Anointed One
Contrary to the depiction given in the New Testament gospels of Matthew and Luke, Jesus was likely not born as the Messiah. He received this title through his initiation by John the Baptist, and so it is not surprising that both Mark and John are conspicuously absent of the virgin-birth mythology, and begin their stories of Jesus' short career with his initiation by John.
Although their version of Jesus' baptism by John describes it as involving submersion under water, the term "baptism" has connotations of "initiation", and Gnostic scriptures indicate that the original rite was performed in conjunction with the kaneh-bosm anointing rite, "the annointing taking place either before or after the baptismal ceremony."3 Some Gnostic texts also specifically state that Jesus recieved the title Christ "because of the anointing,"4 not because of a water baptism.
Conceivably, the washing off of the oil with water would have been a means to begin the termination of ritual and the oil's effects.
The description of the after-effects of the rite clearly indicates that Jesus underwent an intense psychological experience, more than one would recieve from a simple submersion in water.
K The reference to a dove may have connotations of the Goddess tradition, which was continued by the Gnostics, who paid special attention to Sophia, Goddess of Wisdom. In earlier times the dove was sacred to Astarts, Aphrodite, Ishtar and other forms of the Goddess. "Gnostic Christians said Sophia was incarnate in the dove. . . that descended on Jesus at his baptism to impregnate his mind." 12
Jesus came from Nazareth Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove. K And a voice came from heaven "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert for forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with wild animals, and angels attended him. (Mark 1: 9-13)
It should be noted that the vision and words described were seen and heard only by Jesus, as it specifically states that "he saw".
The role played by John the Baptist, as priest and prophet, is very similiar to that of the Old Testament prophet Samuel. Just as Samuel's annointing of Saul and David marked them as Messiah-king, so did Jesus' initiation by John make him the Christ.
In the events after Jesus' vision and his overwhelmed recluse into the desert, there are clear parallels with the story of the prophet Samuel's initiation of Saul with the cannabis-rich holy ointment, and Saul's ensuing madness in the form of possession by the Spirit, and wandering off to make nabi (act in a frenzied ecstatic manner) (1 Samuel 10).
The tale of Saul's possession by the spirit is an example of how the ancients interpreted the effects of cannabis and other entheogens. What we perceive as being "high" or "stoned" the ancients called "possessed by the Spirit of the Lord."
"As a result of the spiritual 'anointing' Jesus expected to be different; and he was different. The prophecies had said that the Messiah would recieve from God wisdom and insight, the power to heal and to subjugate evil. The faith of Jesus was so strong that he did not question that these capacities had now been conferred upon him." 6
The entheogenic effect of the cannabis annointing oil would have immensely magnified both Jesus' own expectations, and the ensuing experience with John.
J The same proclamation is stated of the Anointed One, or King in Psalm 2: 7.
In some authorative texts of the Gospel according to Luke, after the Baptism the voice of God declares, "This day I have begotten thee." J This indicates that the event of Jesus' encounter with John marks the true beginnings of Jesus' mission and his acknowledgement as the Messiah.
The importance of the anointing, and Jesus' own acknowledgement of it, is again exemplified in the gospel of Luke.
According to the New Testament Jesus began his ministry in Nazareth, by reading the following passage from the scroll of Isaiah and proclaiming, "today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing" (Luke 4:16)
The Spirit of Yahweh God is upon me, because Yahweh has anointed me to bring good tidings to the afflicted; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound... (Isaiah 61:1-2)
Contrary to the depiction given in the New Testament gospels of Matthew and Luke, Jesus was likely not born as the Messiah. He received this title through his initiation by John the Baptist, and so it is not surprising that both Mark and John are conspicuously absent of the virgin-birth mythology, and begin their stories of Jesus' short career with his initiation by John.
Although their version of Jesus' baptism by John describes it as involving submersion under water, the term "baptism" has connotations of "initiation", and Gnostic scriptures indicate that the original rite was performed in conjunction with the kaneh-bosm anointing rite, "the annointing taking place either before or after the baptismal ceremony."3 Some Gnostic texts also specifically state that Jesus recieved the title Christ "because of the anointing,"4 not because of a water baptism.
Conceivably, the washing off of the oil with water would have been a means to begin the termination of ritual and the oil's effects.
The description of the after-effects of the rite clearly indicates that Jesus underwent an intense psychological experience, more than one would recieve from a simple submersion in water.
K The reference to a dove may have connotations of the Goddess tradition, which was continued by the Gnostics, who paid special attention to Sophia, Goddess of Wisdom. In earlier times the dove was sacred to Astarts, Aphrodite, Ishtar and other forms of the Goddess. "Gnostic Christians said Sophia was incarnate in the dove. . . that descended on Jesus at his baptism to impregnate his mind." 12
Jesus came from Nazareth Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan. As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove. K And a voice came from heaven "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert for forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with wild animals, and angels attended him. (Mark 1: 9-13)
It should be noted that the vision and words described were seen and heard only by Jesus, as it specifically states that "he saw".
The role played by John the Baptist, as priest and prophet, is very similiar to that of the Old Testament prophet Samuel. Just as Samuel's annointing of Saul and David marked them as Messiah-king, so did Jesus' initiation by John make him the Christ.
In the events after Jesus' vision and his overwhelmed recluse into the desert, there are clear parallels with the story of the prophet Samuel's initiation of Saul with the cannabis-rich holy ointment, and Saul's ensuing madness in the form of possession by the Spirit, and wandering off to make nabi (act in a frenzied ecstatic manner) (1 Samuel 10).
The tale of Saul's possession by the spirit is an example of how the ancients interpreted the effects of cannabis and other entheogens. What we perceive as being "high" or "stoned" the ancients called "possessed by the Spirit of the Lord."
"As a result of the spiritual 'anointing' Jesus expected to be different; and he was different. The prophecies had said that the Messiah would recieve from God wisdom and insight, the power to heal and to subjugate evil. The faith of Jesus was so strong that he did not question that these capacities had now been conferred upon him." 6
The entheogenic effect of the cannabis annointing oil would have immensely magnified both Jesus' own expectations, and the ensuing experience with John.
J The same proclamation is stated of the Anointed One, or King in Psalm 2: 7.
In some authorative texts of the Gospel according to Luke, after the Baptism the voice of God declares, "This day I have begotten thee." J This indicates that the event of Jesus' encounter with John marks the true beginnings of Jesus' mission and his acknowledgement as the Messiah.
The importance of the anointing, and Jesus' own acknowledgement of it, is again exemplified in the gospel of Luke.
According to the New Testament Jesus began his ministry in Nazareth, by reading the following passage from the scroll of Isaiah and proclaiming, "today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing" (Luke 4:16)
The Spirit of Yahweh God is upon me, because Yahweh has anointed me to bring good tidings to the afflicted; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound... (Isaiah 61:1-2)
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 3:04 pm
Other Christian Sources
For the first four hundred years after Jesus' birth, the term "Christian" was used to describe a wide variety of sects and a large volume of different documents. Through the acceptance of one of the more ascetic branches of Christianity by the Roman ruling class, Christianity eventually became the state religion of its former persecutors.
In an effort to unify the faith into a controllable mass, the newly formed Roman Catholic Church held a number of councils. These councils prohibited not only pagans, but also differing Christian sects, and edited a wealth of Christian literature down to the few meager documents which have survived as the modern New Testament. Z
Z The New Testament in its present form was composed and edited between 367-397AD, about twelve generations after the events in question.
In an attempt to save their manuscripts from the editorial flames of the Roman Catholic Church, certain Christians, now considered Gnostic heretics, hid copies of their scrolls in caves. One of these ancient hiding places was rediscovered in our own century, and the large collection of early Christian documents was named the Nag Hamadi Library,2 after the Egyptian area where it was found. Prior to this discovery, what little was known of the Gnostics came from a few fragmentary texts, and the many polemics written against them by the founders of the Catholic Church.
There is no reason to consider these ancient Gnostic documents as less accurate portrayals of the life and teachings of Jesus than the New Testament accounts. In a sense, the rediscovery of the Nag Hamadi Library marks the resurrection of a more historical Jesus, an ecstatic rebel sage who preached enlightenment through rituals involving magical plants, and who is more analogous to the Indian Shiva, or the Greek Dionysus, than the pious ascetic that has come down to us through the Bible's New Testament.
For the first four hundred years after Jesus' birth, the term "Christian" was used to describe a wide variety of sects and a large volume of different documents. Through the acceptance of one of the more ascetic branches of Christianity by the Roman ruling class, Christianity eventually became the state religion of its former persecutors.
In an effort to unify the faith into a controllable mass, the newly formed Roman Catholic Church held a number of councils. These councils prohibited not only pagans, but also differing Christian sects, and edited a wealth of Christian literature down to the few meager documents which have survived as the modern New Testament. Z
Z The New Testament in its present form was composed and edited between 367-397AD, about twelve generations after the events in question.
In an attempt to save their manuscripts from the editorial flames of the Roman Catholic Church, certain Christians, now considered Gnostic heretics, hid copies of their scrolls in caves. One of these ancient hiding places was rediscovered in our own century, and the large collection of early Christian documents was named the Nag Hamadi Library,2 after the Egyptian area where it was found. Prior to this discovery, what little was known of the Gnostics came from a few fragmentary texts, and the many polemics written against them by the founders of the Catholic Church.
There is no reason to consider these ancient Gnostic documents as less accurate portrayals of the life and teachings of Jesus than the New Testament accounts. In a sense, the rediscovery of the Nag Hamadi Library marks the resurrection of a more historical Jesus, an ecstatic rebel sage who preached enlightenment through rituals involving magical plants, and who is more analogous to the Indian Shiva, or the Greek Dionysus, than the pious ascetic that has come down to us through the Bible's New Testament.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 3:13 pm
Part 4 of "When Smoke Gets in my I" a series on the history of cannabis and human consciousness.
"If you know the truth, the truth will make you free." (John 8:32)
Jesus used Marijuana
As doubtful as the following hypothesis might first seem to the reader, I might as well boldly state my case right from the start: either Jesus used marijuana or he was not the Christ. The very word "Christ", by the implication of its linguistic origins and true meaning, gives us the most profound evidence that Jesus did in fact use the same herb as his ancient semitic ancestors, and which is still used by people around the world for its enlightening and healing properties.
The Greek title "Christ" is the translation of the Hebrew word Messiah, which in English becomes "The Anointed" D. The Messiah was recognized as such by his being anointed with the holy anointing oil, the use of which was restricted to the instillation of Hebrew priests and kings (See CC#5). If Jesus was not initiated in this fashion then he was not the Christ, and had no official claim to the title.
D The title "Messiah" is much older than Christianity, as all the ancient kings of Israel are referred to as the "Messiah". "Christos - Anointed One, a title of many Middle-Eastern sacrificial gods: Attis, Adonis, Tammuz, Osiris. . ." 12
The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew "kaneh-bosm" B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil.
B The "m" is a pronounced plural, and the singular kaneh-bos sounds remarkably similar to the modern cannabis. Although often mistranslated as "calamus", the word has been translated as "fragrant-cane" in most modern bibles, and specifically designates the fragrant flowering tops of cannabis.
From the time of Moses until that of the later prophet Samuel, the holy anointing oil was used by the shamanic Levite priesthood to receive the "revelations of the Lord". At the dawn of the age of Kings, Samuel extended the use of the anointing oil to the Hebraic monarchs by anointing Saul (and later David) as "Messiah-king". These kings lead their people with the benefit of insights achieved through using the holy anointing oil to become "possessed with the spirit of the Lord."
"Anointing was common among kings of Israel. It was the sign and symbol of royalty. The word 'Messiah' signifies the 'Anointed One', and none of the kings of Israel were styled the Messiah unless anointed."1 The title was clearly only given to those "having the crown of God's unction upon them" (Leviticus 21:12).
After the fall of the Jewish kingdoms, and the bloody purges following the forged discovery of the Book of theLaw (1 Kings 23), the cannabis holy oil was prohibited as associated with pagan worship. Yet it seems that certain sects retained the topical entheogen, and continued to practice the older religion, silently awaiting the return of a Messiah-king in the line of David.
The ministry of Jesus marked the return of the Jewish Messiah-kings, and thus the re-emergence of the holy oil. Jesus was called the Christ because he violated the Old Testament taboo on the cannabis oil and distributed it freely for initiation rites and to heal the sick and wounded.
Although there is some evidence of Jesus' use of this Judaic cannabis oil in the traditional New Testament, we get a clearer picture of its importance when we also look at surviving Gnostic documents. The term Gnostic, meaning "knowledge", refers to a variety of early Christian sects which had extremely different beliefs about both Jesus and his teachings than those which have come down to us through modern Christianity.
"If you know the truth, the truth will make you free." (John 8:32)
Jesus used Marijuana
As doubtful as the following hypothesis might first seem to the reader, I might as well boldly state my case right from the start: either Jesus used marijuana or he was not the Christ. The very word "Christ", by the implication of its linguistic origins and true meaning, gives us the most profound evidence that Jesus did in fact use the same herb as his ancient semitic ancestors, and which is still used by people around the world for its enlightening and healing properties.
The Greek title "Christ" is the translation of the Hebrew word Messiah, which in English becomes "The Anointed" D. The Messiah was recognized as such by his being anointed with the holy anointing oil, the use of which was restricted to the instillation of Hebrew priests and kings (See CC#5). If Jesus was not initiated in this fashion then he was not the Christ, and had no official claim to the title.
D The title "Messiah" is much older than Christianity, as all the ancient kings of Israel are referred to as the "Messiah". "Christos - Anointed One, a title of many Middle-Eastern sacrificial gods: Attis, Adonis, Tammuz, Osiris. . ." 12
The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew "kaneh-bosm" B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil.
B The "m" is a pronounced plural, and the singular kaneh-bos sounds remarkably similar to the modern cannabis. Although often mistranslated as "calamus", the word has been translated as "fragrant-cane" in most modern bibles, and specifically designates the fragrant flowering tops of cannabis.
From the time of Moses until that of the later prophet Samuel, the holy anointing oil was used by the shamanic Levite priesthood to receive the "revelations of the Lord". At the dawn of the age of Kings, Samuel extended the use of the anointing oil to the Hebraic monarchs by anointing Saul (and later David) as "Messiah-king". These kings lead their people with the benefit of insights achieved through using the holy anointing oil to become "possessed with the spirit of the Lord."
"Anointing was common among kings of Israel. It was the sign and symbol of royalty. The word 'Messiah' signifies the 'Anointed One', and none of the kings of Israel were styled the Messiah unless anointed."1 The title was clearly only given to those "having the crown of God's unction upon them" (Leviticus 21:12).
After the fall of the Jewish kingdoms, and the bloody purges following the forged discovery of the Book of theLaw (1 Kings 23), the cannabis holy oil was prohibited as associated with pagan worship. Yet it seems that certain sects retained the topical entheogen, and continued to practice the older religion, silently awaiting the return of a Messiah-king in the line of David.
The ministry of Jesus marked the return of the Jewish Messiah-kings, and thus the re-emergence of the holy oil. Jesus was called the Christ because he violated the Old Testament taboo on the cannabis oil and distributed it freely for initiation rites and to heal the sick and wounded.
Although there is some evidence of Jesus' use of this Judaic cannabis oil in the traditional New Testament, we get a clearer picture of its importance when we also look at surviving Gnostic documents. The term Gnostic, meaning "knowledge", refers to a variety of early Christian sects which had extremely different beliefs about both Jesus and his teachings than those which have come down to us through modern Christianity.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by darla_ ned stu 09, 2014 3:29 pm
A vidi koliko je Esco teksta stavio 
Ma daj niti medicinska vrijednost jos nije legla na mjesto, di ces u religiju dirati
Ma daj niti medicinska vrijednost jos nije legla na mjesto, di ces u religiju dirati
darla_- Posts : 1482
Join date : 31.05.2014
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 3:57 pm
Pancho je napisao/la:A vidi koliko je Esco teksta stavio
Ma daj niti medicinska vrijednost jos nije legla na mjesto, di ces u religiju dirati
moram branit mog rodju Isusa iz iste smo loze iznikli krv nije voda. i ja pomazem potrebitima ko i moj rodjo Isus. znam isto da ce i mene danasnji turbo taliban-"krscani" razapet na kriz ali jebiga, eppur si muove...
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 4:53 pm
evo poduze debate o toj temi stavit cu link pa koga zanima...
Prof. Carl Ruck, Classical Mythology, Boston University , (also a linguist)
Cannabis is called kaneh bosem in Hebrew, which is now recognized as the Scythian word that Herodotus wrote as kannabis (or cannabis). The translators of the bible translate this usually as ‘fragrant cane,’ i.e., an aromatic grass. Once the word is correctly translated, the use of cannabis in the bible is clear. Large amounts of it were compounded into the ointment for the ordination of the priest. This ointment was also used to anoint the holy vessels in the Inner Sanctum or Tabernacle (‘tent’). It was also used to fumigate the holy enclosed space. The ointment (absorbed through the skin) and the fragrance of the vessels (both absorbed by handling and inhaled as perfume) and the smoke of the incense in the confined space would have been a very effective means of administering the psychoactive properties of the plant. Since it was only the High Priest who entered the Tabernacle, it was an experience reserved for him, although as the chrism of priestly ordination it was probably also something experienced in a different way by the whole priesthood. This same psychoactive chrism was later used for the coronation of the kings.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/blogs/2009/11/16/Great-Keneh-Bosem-Debate-Part-1
Prof. Carl Ruck, Classical Mythology, Boston University , (also a linguist)
Cannabis is called kaneh bosem in Hebrew, which is now recognized as the Scythian word that Herodotus wrote as kannabis (or cannabis). The translators of the bible translate this usually as ‘fragrant cane,’ i.e., an aromatic grass. Once the word is correctly translated, the use of cannabis in the bible is clear. Large amounts of it were compounded into the ointment for the ordination of the priest. This ointment was also used to anoint the holy vessels in the Inner Sanctum or Tabernacle (‘tent’). It was also used to fumigate the holy enclosed space. The ointment (absorbed through the skin) and the fragrance of the vessels (both absorbed by handling and inhaled as perfume) and the smoke of the incense in the confined space would have been a very effective means of administering the psychoactive properties of the plant. Since it was only the High Priest who entered the Tabernacle, it was an experience reserved for him, although as the chrism of priestly ordination it was probably also something experienced in a different way by the whole priesthood. This same psychoactive chrism was later used for the coronation of the kings.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/blogs/2009/11/16/Great-Keneh-Bosem-Debate-Part-1
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 4:59 pm
i drugi linkovi da ne c/p
The smoking solstice sun gods
http://zzco.org/chris_bennett/smokingods.html
http://zzco.org/
http://zzco.org/chris_bennett/
http://www.forbiddenfruitpublishing.com/
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/potbible.htm
http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm
http://www.druglibrary.org/mags/medical_marijuana_throughout_his.htm
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.htm
dalje trazite sami...Google is your friend...
The smoking solstice sun gods
http://zzco.org/chris_bennett/smokingods.html
http://zzco.org/
http://zzco.org/chris_bennett/
http://www.forbiddenfruitpublishing.com/
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/potbible.htm
http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm
http://www.druglibrary.org/mags/medical_marijuana_throughout_his.htm
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.htm
dalje trazite sami...Google is your friend...
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 6:06 pm
2. Current Medical Knowledge
It is perhaps best to begin with the medical data concerning the traditional allegations about marijuana.
(a) The Myths.-First, it is universally accepted among medical authorities that marijuana is not physically habit-forming.43 Although some researchers have asserted that a psychological dependence may result from continued use of the drug, this hypothesis has not been established and its relevance has been questioned. One authority has noted that "habituation to marihuana is not as strong as to tobacco or to alcohol." 44 Another has commented that "[a] psychological dependence and desire for the drug may occur, but this is inconsistent and is not uncontrollable.... Perhaps the dependence is even less than the dependence on cigarettes." 45
Second, there is no evidence whatsoever that the use of marijuana has a direct relationship to the commission of crime. One commentator has noted that " during the high the marihuana user may say things he would not ordinarily say, but he generally will not do things that are foreign to his nature. If he is not normally a criminal, he will not commit a crime under the influence of the drug." 46 In fact, it is entirely likely that the characteristic passive reaction to the use of marijuana tends to inhibit criminality. A recent study has shown that juvenile "potheads" tend to be nonaggressive and to stay away from trouble.47 Similarly, there is no scientific evidence for the proposition that marijuana is an aphrodisiac. It has been suggested to the contrary that the most potent form of cannabis, pure ganja, has the reverse effect, being taken by Indian priests to quell the libido.48
Finally, the evidence is at best inconclusive regarding the contention that use of marijuana leads to the use of "hard" narcotics. Some of the early studies claiming to have established a valid connection were scientifically unreliable. One authority has observed in this regard:
Supposedly scientific studies of this problem have been conducted in the past, such as the one done in a deprived area of a large city where the use of heroin was widespread, and indicating that many users of marijuana went on to the use of more hazardous drugs. I am sure that without previous marijuana, the use of such drugs in that environment would be just as high, and that if such a study were done on a college population, it would be found that the subsequent use of "hard" drugs would be negligible.49
Referring to a presidential task force investigation, another authoritv has commented:
It is true that the Federal study showed that among heroin users about 50% had had experience with marijuana- the study also found, however, that most of the heroin addicts had been users of alcohol and tobacco. There is no evidence that marijuana is more likely than alcohol or tobacco to lead to the use of narcotics.50
On the basis of the available information, most authorities have concluded that there is no scientific basis for the theory that the use of marijuana is a causal factor in the use of "hard" narcotics.51 In any event, as a matter of common sense, it would appear that the phenomenon in dispute is very complex, including both individual personality features and environmental factors. As one commentator put it "Several of the studies indicate that the precious statistics have been misleading and exaggerated." Whether or not the proposition can be scientifically established, there is probably a slightly greater chance that an individual who has used marijuana could go on to opiates, but statistically this is not . . . an important social consideration."52
Thus, it appears that none of the traditional allegations about marijuana has been scientifically established, that its alleged addictive qualities have been disproved, and that the overwhelming weight of authority disputes its allegedly crime producing and stepping stone tendencies. We will now briefly survey the medically recognized effects of the drug, physical, psychomotor and psychological.
(b) Physical Effects.-The acute physical effects of marijuana are the subject of much debate. Various studies have reached different conclusions. Nearly all authorities, however, are in agreement that the bodily symptoms accompanying the "high" are very slight. The most commonly noted effects are a slight rise in blood pressure, conjunctival vascular congestion, slight elevation in blood sugar, urinary frequency and an increase in pulse rate.53 In general, these acute symptoms are relatively short-lived, and there are no known lasting physical effects.54 On the other hand, there is evidence that prolonged smoking could lead to "marijuana bronchitis," and that communal smoking has the tendency to encourage the spread of communicable diseases.
(c) Psychomotor Effects.-Varying results have also been reported in studies of the acute effects of marijuana upon psychomotor functions. Although the researchers have sometimes found some slight impairment in performance tests,55 there is apparently no general depressing or stimulating effect on the nervous system and no influence on speech and coordination.56 In the most recent study, Doctors Well, Zinberg and Nelson of the Boston University School of Medicine found that marijuana users are able to compensate nearly 100 percent for whatever adverse effects may result on ordinary psychomotor performance. 57
Such findings suggest that marijuana is not likely to be a causal factor in driving accidents, a hypothesis that is supported by a recent simulated driving test comparing the performance of subjects under the influence of marijuana and alcohol.58 There seems to be no contention in the medical field that there are any lasting effects from marijuana in the psychomotor area. The Well study reported that noticeable effects "were diminished between 30 minutes and I hour, and they were largely dissipated 3 hours after the end of smoking. No delayed or persistent effects beyond 3 hours were observed or reported." 59
(d) Psychological Effects.-The acute psychological effects of the use of marijuana are more complex. At the outset, it can be stated with certainty that "marijuana is definitely distinguishable from other hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD, MIT, mescaline, peyote, and psilocybin. Although it produces some of the same effects, it is far less potent than these other drugs. It does not alter consciousness to nearly so great an extent as they do nor does It lead to increasing tolerance to the drug dosage." 60 Furthermore, the subjective effects of cannabis are dependent upon the personality of the user, his expectations, and the circumstances under which the drug is taken, as well as learning to smoke marijuana properly.61
There is general agreement about the pleasurable psychological effects. Users uniformly experience greatly enhanced perception-whether real or delusory-of visual, auditory, taste and touch effects, increased sense of humor or hilarity, feelings of well-being or wonderment, and distorted time and space perceptions.62 In this connection, it is interesting to note that even the pleasurable phenomena are dependent on individual circumstances, particularly ivlicii the drug is taken for the first time. Many, if not most, people do not become "high" on their first exposure to marijuana, even if it is smoked correctly.63 The probable explanation for this curious phenomenon is that repeated exposure to marijuana reduces psychological inhibition, as part of, or as a result of, a learning process.64
Medical knowledge is most tentative with reference to adverse psychological effects. Recent studies, however, have vehemently disputed an earlier tendency to attribute psychoses and severe panic reactions to marijuana use.65 As Dr. Well has noted:
Because reliable information about the acute effects of marijuana has been as scarce within the medical profession as without, many of these reactions have been misinterpreted and incorrectly treated. For example, simple panic states, which doubtless would be properly diagnosed in other circumstances, are often called "toxic psychoses" when doctors elicit immediate histories of marijuana use.66
Medical experts now generally agree that the possibility of depression, panic and psychoses depends entirely on the circumstances of use and the personality of the user.67 In his most recent study, Dr. Weil concluded that "serious adverse reactions are uncommon in the 'normal' population,"68 but noted three exceptions. First, simple depressive reactions which rarely occur in regular users may occur in novices who approach their initial use ambivalently.69 Second, the most frequent adverse reaction is apprehension, more often described as anxiety, and sometimes reaching a degree of panic. Again, such reactions are closely related to the attitude of the user and to the social setting.70 The social setting also influences the frequency of panic reactions, suggesting again that this phenomenon correlates with the degree of reluctance with which people approach initial use of the drug:
In a community where marijuana has been accepted as a recreational intoxicant, they may be extremely rare (for example, one per cent of all responses to the drug). On the other hand, at a rural Southern college, where experimentation with the drug may represent a much greater degree of social deviance, 25 per cent of persons trying it for the first time may become panicked.71
The panicked person normally believes that he is either dying or losing his mind, and simple reassurance will end most such reactions.72 The reaction normally is short-lived, but it may be prolonged by an attitude encouraging the underlying fears.73 In short, "panic reactions . . . seem more nonpharmacologic than pharmacologic."74
Third, psychotic reactions occur rarely, if at all, in normal users,75 and occur mainly in persons with a low psychosis threshold or a history of psychosis76 or hallucinogenic drug experimentation.77 Even in such cases, marijuana is a precipitant rather than a primary cause of this type of reaction 78 which lasts at most a day or two.79
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/vlr/vlr8.htm
It is perhaps best to begin with the medical data concerning the traditional allegations about marijuana.
(a) The Myths.-First, it is universally accepted among medical authorities that marijuana is not physically habit-forming.43 Although some researchers have asserted that a psychological dependence may result from continued use of the drug, this hypothesis has not been established and its relevance has been questioned. One authority has noted that "habituation to marihuana is not as strong as to tobacco or to alcohol." 44 Another has commented that "[a] psychological dependence and desire for the drug may occur, but this is inconsistent and is not uncontrollable.... Perhaps the dependence is even less than the dependence on cigarettes." 45
Second, there is no evidence whatsoever that the use of marijuana has a direct relationship to the commission of crime. One commentator has noted that " during the high the marihuana user may say things he would not ordinarily say, but he generally will not do things that are foreign to his nature. If he is not normally a criminal, he will not commit a crime under the influence of the drug." 46 In fact, it is entirely likely that the characteristic passive reaction to the use of marijuana tends to inhibit criminality. A recent study has shown that juvenile "potheads" tend to be nonaggressive and to stay away from trouble.47 Similarly, there is no scientific evidence for the proposition that marijuana is an aphrodisiac. It has been suggested to the contrary that the most potent form of cannabis, pure ganja, has the reverse effect, being taken by Indian priests to quell the libido.48
Finally, the evidence is at best inconclusive regarding the contention that use of marijuana leads to the use of "hard" narcotics. Some of the early studies claiming to have established a valid connection were scientifically unreliable. One authority has observed in this regard:
Supposedly scientific studies of this problem have been conducted in the past, such as the one done in a deprived area of a large city where the use of heroin was widespread, and indicating that many users of marijuana went on to the use of more hazardous drugs. I am sure that without previous marijuana, the use of such drugs in that environment would be just as high, and that if such a study were done on a college population, it would be found that the subsequent use of "hard" drugs would be negligible.49
Referring to a presidential task force investigation, another authoritv has commented:
It is true that the Federal study showed that among heroin users about 50% had had experience with marijuana- the study also found, however, that most of the heroin addicts had been users of alcohol and tobacco. There is no evidence that marijuana is more likely than alcohol or tobacco to lead to the use of narcotics.50
On the basis of the available information, most authorities have concluded that there is no scientific basis for the theory that the use of marijuana is a causal factor in the use of "hard" narcotics.51 In any event, as a matter of common sense, it would appear that the phenomenon in dispute is very complex, including both individual personality features and environmental factors. As one commentator put it "Several of the studies indicate that the precious statistics have been misleading and exaggerated." Whether or not the proposition can be scientifically established, there is probably a slightly greater chance that an individual who has used marijuana could go on to opiates, but statistically this is not . . . an important social consideration."52
Thus, it appears that none of the traditional allegations about marijuana has been scientifically established, that its alleged addictive qualities have been disproved, and that the overwhelming weight of authority disputes its allegedly crime producing and stepping stone tendencies. We will now briefly survey the medically recognized effects of the drug, physical, psychomotor and psychological.
(b) Physical Effects.-The acute physical effects of marijuana are the subject of much debate. Various studies have reached different conclusions. Nearly all authorities, however, are in agreement that the bodily symptoms accompanying the "high" are very slight. The most commonly noted effects are a slight rise in blood pressure, conjunctival vascular congestion, slight elevation in blood sugar, urinary frequency and an increase in pulse rate.53 In general, these acute symptoms are relatively short-lived, and there are no known lasting physical effects.54 On the other hand, there is evidence that prolonged smoking could lead to "marijuana bronchitis," and that communal smoking has the tendency to encourage the spread of communicable diseases.
(c) Psychomotor Effects.-Varying results have also been reported in studies of the acute effects of marijuana upon psychomotor functions. Although the researchers have sometimes found some slight impairment in performance tests,55 there is apparently no general depressing or stimulating effect on the nervous system and no influence on speech and coordination.56 In the most recent study, Doctors Well, Zinberg and Nelson of the Boston University School of Medicine found that marijuana users are able to compensate nearly 100 percent for whatever adverse effects may result on ordinary psychomotor performance. 57
Such findings suggest that marijuana is not likely to be a causal factor in driving accidents, a hypothesis that is supported by a recent simulated driving test comparing the performance of subjects under the influence of marijuana and alcohol.58 There seems to be no contention in the medical field that there are any lasting effects from marijuana in the psychomotor area. The Well study reported that noticeable effects "were diminished between 30 minutes and I hour, and they were largely dissipated 3 hours after the end of smoking. No delayed or persistent effects beyond 3 hours were observed or reported." 59
(d) Psychological Effects.-The acute psychological effects of the use of marijuana are more complex. At the outset, it can be stated with certainty that "marijuana is definitely distinguishable from other hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD, MIT, mescaline, peyote, and psilocybin. Although it produces some of the same effects, it is far less potent than these other drugs. It does not alter consciousness to nearly so great an extent as they do nor does It lead to increasing tolerance to the drug dosage." 60 Furthermore, the subjective effects of cannabis are dependent upon the personality of the user, his expectations, and the circumstances under which the drug is taken, as well as learning to smoke marijuana properly.61
There is general agreement about the pleasurable psychological effects. Users uniformly experience greatly enhanced perception-whether real or delusory-of visual, auditory, taste and touch effects, increased sense of humor or hilarity, feelings of well-being or wonderment, and distorted time and space perceptions.62 In this connection, it is interesting to note that even the pleasurable phenomena are dependent on individual circumstances, particularly ivlicii the drug is taken for the first time. Many, if not most, people do not become "high" on their first exposure to marijuana, even if it is smoked correctly.63 The probable explanation for this curious phenomenon is that repeated exposure to marijuana reduces psychological inhibition, as part of, or as a result of, a learning process.64
Medical knowledge is most tentative with reference to adverse psychological effects. Recent studies, however, have vehemently disputed an earlier tendency to attribute psychoses and severe panic reactions to marijuana use.65 As Dr. Well has noted:
Because reliable information about the acute effects of marijuana has been as scarce within the medical profession as without, many of these reactions have been misinterpreted and incorrectly treated. For example, simple panic states, which doubtless would be properly diagnosed in other circumstances, are often called "toxic psychoses" when doctors elicit immediate histories of marijuana use.66
Medical experts now generally agree that the possibility of depression, panic and psychoses depends entirely on the circumstances of use and the personality of the user.67 In his most recent study, Dr. Weil concluded that "serious adverse reactions are uncommon in the 'normal' population,"68 but noted three exceptions. First, simple depressive reactions which rarely occur in regular users may occur in novices who approach their initial use ambivalently.69 Second, the most frequent adverse reaction is apprehension, more often described as anxiety, and sometimes reaching a degree of panic. Again, such reactions are closely related to the attitude of the user and to the social setting.70 The social setting also influences the frequency of panic reactions, suggesting again that this phenomenon correlates with the degree of reluctance with which people approach initial use of the drug:
In a community where marijuana has been accepted as a recreational intoxicant, they may be extremely rare (for example, one per cent of all responses to the drug). On the other hand, at a rural Southern college, where experimentation with the drug may represent a much greater degree of social deviance, 25 per cent of persons trying it for the first time may become panicked.71
The panicked person normally believes that he is either dying or losing his mind, and simple reassurance will end most such reactions.72 The reaction normally is short-lived, but it may be prolonged by an attitude encouraging the underlying fears.73 In short, "panic reactions . . . seem more nonpharmacologic than pharmacologic."74
Third, psychotic reactions occur rarely, if at all, in normal users,75 and occur mainly in persons with a low psychosis threshold or a history of psychosis76 or hallucinogenic drug experimentation.77 Even in such cases, marijuana is a precipitant rather than a primary cause of this type of reaction 78 which lasts at most a day or two.79
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/vlr/vlr8.htm
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 6:44 pm
ovo postaje zbunjujuce komplicirano:
Shaytan as a "whisperer"
In Islamic theology, Shaytan and his minions are "whisperers", who whisper into the chests of humans, urging them to sin.
The Quran provides a supplication for mankind, aimed at fighting the tempting of Satan and his minions:
Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
The God (or judge) of Mankind,-
From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
Among Jinn and among men.
—Quran, sura 114 (Al-Nas), ayat 1–6
Whisp?
Shaytan as a "whisperer"
In Islamic theology, Shaytan and his minions are "whisperers", who whisper into the chests of humans, urging them to sin.
The Quran provides a supplication for mankind, aimed at fighting the tempting of Satan and his minions:
Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
The God (or judge) of Mankind,-
From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
Among Jinn and among men.
—Quran, sura 114 (Al-Nas), ayat 1–6
Whisp?
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 6:49 pm
Mary (مريم Marīam in Arabic), the mother of Jesus (Isa), is considered one of the most righteous women in the Islamic tradition. She is mentioned more in the Quran[2] than in the entire New Testament and is also the only woman mentioned by name in the Quran.[3] According to the Quran, Jesus was born miraculously by the will of God without a father. His mother is regarded as a chaste and virtuous woman and is said to have been a virgin. The Quran states clearly that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth, but that neither Mary nor her son were divine. In the Quran, no other woman is given more attention than Mary and the Quran states that Mary was chosen above all women:
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee – chosen thee above the women of all nations.
—Quran, sura 3 (Al Imran), ayah 42[4]
The nineteenth chapter of the Quran, Maryam (sura) is named after her and is, to some extent, about her life. Of the Quran's 114 suras, she is among only eight people who have a chapter named after them. Mary is specifically mentioned in the Quran, alongside Asiya, as an exemplar for all righteous women.[5] Mary plays an important role in Islamic culture and religious tradition, and verses from the Quran relating to Mary are frequently inscribed on the mihrab of various mosques, including in the Hagia Sophia.[6]
The Quran calls Mary "the daughter of 'Imran".[7] Sometimes confused with Amram, the father of Moses, Imran in Islamic tradition is also another name for Joachim the husband of Hannah, the sister of Elizabeth, the wife of Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist.[1][8][9] In the Quran, Hannah prayed for a child and eventually conceived; but her husband Imran, died before the child was born. Expecting the child to be male, Hannah vowed to dedicate him to isolation and service in the Temple.[10] However, Hannah bore a daughter instead, and named her Mary.
Mary is mentioned frequently in the Quran, and her narrative occurs consistently from the earliest chapters, revealed in Mecca, to the latest verses, revealed in Medina.
tko je sad tu krao i copy pejstao? muslimani, katolici, zidofi? tko od koga?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee – chosen thee above the women of all nations.
—Quran, sura 3 (Al Imran), ayah 42[4]
The nineteenth chapter of the Quran, Maryam (sura) is named after her and is, to some extent, about her life. Of the Quran's 114 suras, she is among only eight people who have a chapter named after them. Mary is specifically mentioned in the Quran, alongside Asiya, as an exemplar for all righteous women.[5] Mary plays an important role in Islamic culture and religious tradition, and verses from the Quran relating to Mary are frequently inscribed on the mihrab of various mosques, including in the Hagia Sophia.[6]
The Quran calls Mary "the daughter of 'Imran".[7] Sometimes confused with Amram, the father of Moses, Imran in Islamic tradition is also another name for Joachim the husband of Hannah, the sister of Elizabeth, the wife of Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist.[1][8][9] In the Quran, Hannah prayed for a child and eventually conceived; but her husband Imran, died before the child was born. Expecting the child to be male, Hannah vowed to dedicate him to isolation and service in the Temple.[10] However, Hannah bore a daughter instead, and named her Mary.
Mary is mentioned frequently in the Quran, and her narrative occurs consistently from the earliest chapters, revealed in Mecca, to the latest verses, revealed in Medina.
tko je sad tu krao i copy pejstao? muslimani, katolici, zidofi? tko od koga?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 6:54 pm
namece mi se logicno pitanje: zasto se Gospa ukazuje samo krscanima katolicima a muslimanima ne?
zasto muslimani najvise stuju zenu u Kuranu a u realnom zivotu se prema zenama ponasaju kao da su zene niza bica sa manje prava nego daju i zivotinjama?
zasto muslimani najvise stuju zenu u Kuranu a u realnom zivotu se prema zenama ponasaju kao da su zene niza bica sa manje prava nego daju i zivotinjama?
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by Gost ned stu 09, 2014 7:04 pm
1. Research Obstacles
The major obstacle is the nature of the marijuana plant itself. Marijana is a derivative of the plant Cannabis Sativa, commonly denoted the hemp plant. It is classified as a dioecious plant, that is, the male reproductive parts are on one individual plant and the female parts are on another. The differentiation of the male and female plants is exceedingly significant because the chemical compounds responsible for the euphoric effect of marijuana are found primarily in the sticky resin that covers the unfertilized female flowers and adjacent leaves. The male plant may contain a small amount of this active resin, but it is grown mainly for hemp fiber.33
The hemp plant yields three rough grades of intoxicating substances, the least potent of which is "marijuana." 34 Yet, because the classifications are imprecise, confusion is engendered by attributing to "marijuana" the effects produced by the excessive use of the more potent forms of cannabis.35 In addition, the psychic potency of the plant differs depending upon where the marijuana is grown, 36 and upon cultivation variables such as occurrence of fertilization and time of harvesting:
If the male plants are not removed and fertilization occurs, the female plants which carry the main intoxicating properties are considerably weakened in that respect. In addition, unless harvesting is carried out immediately before the blossoming of the flowers there is further weakening and variation in the potency of the produce.37
dakle, Isus se mazao i pusio extra djevicanskim uljem kanabisa samo od zenskih neoplodjenih stabljika konoplje. po tome ispada da je zaista bio reborn tj. rodjen od majke djevice ali ne doslovno kako to talibani vjeruju nego se stonirao naj djevicanskijom najjacom vutrom.
The major obstacle is the nature of the marijuana plant itself. Marijana is a derivative of the plant Cannabis Sativa, commonly denoted the hemp plant. It is classified as a dioecious plant, that is, the male reproductive parts are on one individual plant and the female parts are on another. The differentiation of the male and female plants is exceedingly significant because the chemical compounds responsible for the euphoric effect of marijuana are found primarily in the sticky resin that covers the unfertilized female flowers and adjacent leaves. The male plant may contain a small amount of this active resin, but it is grown mainly for hemp fiber.33
The hemp plant yields three rough grades of intoxicating substances, the least potent of which is "marijuana." 34 Yet, because the classifications are imprecise, confusion is engendered by attributing to "marijuana" the effects produced by the excessive use of the more potent forms of cannabis.35 In addition, the psychic potency of the plant differs depending upon where the marijuana is grown, 36 and upon cultivation variables such as occurrence of fertilization and time of harvesting:
If the male plants are not removed and fertilization occurs, the female plants which carry the main intoxicating properties are considerably weakened in that respect. In addition, unless harvesting is carried out immediately before the blossoming of the flowers there is further weakening and variation in the potency of the produce.37
dakle, Isus se mazao i pusio extra djevicanskim uljem kanabisa samo od zenskih neoplodjenih stabljika konoplje. po tome ispada da je zaista bio reborn tj. rodjen od majke djevice ali ne doslovno kako to talibani vjeruju nego se stonirao naj djevicanskijom najjacom vutrom.
Gost- Gost
Re: Topic od kave i cakula (dnevnih) :)
by darla_ ned stu 09, 2014 7:39 pm
Toro je napisao/la:
dakle, Isus se mazao i pusio extra djevicanskim uljem kanabisa samo od zenskih neoplodjenih stabljika konoplje. po tome ispada da je zaista bio reborn tj. rodjen od majke djevice ali ne doslovno kako to talibani vjeruju nego se stonirao naj djevicanskijom najjacom vutrom.
A odi u kurac, zapljuvala sam se od smijanja
Inace, jebala te tvoja obrana, tvog rodje Isusa, kad po meni padaju granate na prvoj crti bojisnice
darla_- Posts : 1482
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